O.C. Speaks About Recording Trophies With Apollo Brown, His Mortality, and Jewelz 15 Years Later

As part of our Legendary coverage, O.C. and I spoke at length about a number of different topics. Check out part one of this extensive interview where we also speak about how his visit to Detroit deeply impacted him, his label situation, and the track that he was supposed to do with Ice Cube for Word…Life.

Arasia: Well first off, I usually don’t start my interviews like this but I have to let you know that I’ve been trying to interview you for the past ten years. I’m a huge fan and have mad respect for your contributions to Hip Hop. I’ve literally been searching high and low, trying to track you down…you’ve been quite hard to find.

O.C: Thanks sis, I appreciate it so much. Words can’t even describe that.

Arasia: You’ve been on my bucket list for over a decade. Persistence does pay off!  

O.C:  What more can I ask for? People still want to know and still checking. That’s all good for me. That’s a blessing.

Arasia: A lot of respect here man.

O.C: You got me cheesing over here. Where you at? You in Cali?

Arasia: Nah, I’m in Chicago.

O.C: Whoa, Chi-town! Last time I was out there, I got dropped off in a cab in Cabrini Green in like 98, for real. At night, coming from the Shark Bar…. I had on jewelry and I was just like wow…

Arasia: DAMN! That’s the hood or that “was” the hood [laughs] but nevertheless, I want to go ahead and get right into it because I have a lot to speak to you about.

O.C: Okay.

Arasia: First thing, I’ve noticed you don’t do a lot of interviews. Is this because you are a private person or is it because of what the media has become? I know it has changed so much, especially Hip Hop journalism. And it definitely isn’t what it once was so can you elaborate on that?

O.C: A little bit of both. A little bit of the bullshit and I mean, you know, I enjoy my anonymity. I’m not Jay. I’m not Nas. I can drive, shop, and people recognize me. I’m a fixture in the neighborhood so I don’t have to watch my back and have somebody thinking I got money in my pocket and they gone rob me or whatever. I enjoy my anonymity. I pick and choose [interviews]. It’s calculated decisions when I do interviews. A lot of people ask the same questions and I don’t mind being forward but some people are too forward and I gotta check em’ you know? I’m just done with that.

Arasia: I understand. Well feel free to let me know.

O.C: Ask me what you gone ask. You are a sister too? It’s not a problem. Ya’ll few and far between in the game.

Arasia Yeah, that’s true. So the first thing I want to ask you is how the relationship with you, Apollo Brown, and Mello Music Group came about?

O.C: To put it in a nutshell, they contacted me through somebody I knew in Boston. They reached out to me…the guy that ran MMG…he asked [Apollo] if he had a dream artist to work with and he said O.C. So they reached out to someone we knew mutually and they got at me and we took it from there. And the difference with Apollo…when me and him spoke, we had a conversation. It wasn’t about music. He got that out the way but we had a conversation like we knew each other forever. We clicked right off the bat. Then we took care of the business side of it and then this dude sent me like forty something beats. I haven’t had that done since me and Buck worked together. So I felt his enthusiasm in doing the project. And I was enthused as well. I didn’t really know his body of work so I went and did my homework. I had heard his name before and I was impressed. And then he sent the music and I just sat for like a month and half and just started writing.

Arasia: So what was that recording process like for you?

O.C: This dude…he didn’t want to do the project if we couldn’t physically record together. That was his demand. So I wrote to the music in NY and then after I was done, I flew out to Detroit and I actually was out there for a week but it only took me two days to record the whole album.

Arasia: Tell me about that. What was your experience like being in the D?

O.C: It was crazy. It was weird. I did 12 songs in one night so we had a little ongoing joke when he picked me up from the airport because at first, he said I’m gonna take you to get something to eat. I don’t know who he’s worked with before but the cloth we cut from…we work. I told him while we were eating, I’ll knock out about 10-12 songs and he looked at me like I was crazy and was like, “Get the fuck outta here…are you serious?” So I was like, let’s put a bet on it so we bet like $500. At the end of the day, I don’t want that five and I was like aight cool. But we got to the studio at like three or four o’clock and I was done by seven with twelve songs and he was like, “O, are you serious”? I was like if you don’t like something, I’ll go back and do it over. He was [just] like nah, I ain’t touching none of that. So I did a couple of takes over but I had my book in front of me. Half of it was memorized. I knew the cadences, the flows…I knew exactly what I did when I wrote it so I was ripping pages out the book and throwing them on the floor and going on to another song. So he was like, I got a whole other respect for you right now. I was just like yo, this is what I do. This is normal for me.

Arasia: Word. Well Apollo’s been killing it the last few years and one of the main comments we get about him is that his sound is very much like a throwback to that ‘90s boom bap sound that a lot of people credit Premier for who also happens to be Apollo’s favorite producer. So is that what drew you to him opposed to other upcoming producers outside of you all clicking as friends?

O.C: For me, I grew up on soul music so him being from the D…that’s probably one of the main hubs for soul music with Motown. So to me, it rubbed off on him and a lot of artists out there but specifically working with him. Yeah, he has that boom bap sound but it’s a soul that I can’t even explain that he has that’s distinct. I can’t explain it. He might use the same samples but it’s the way he flips it in his way. How he interprets what he does and it just threw me back to nostalgia with Buck…when I first started with Buck. And like I said, we clicked off the bat and his music just fit what I was feeling at that time and even at this stage of the game…laidback, that’s me. You know, in the pocket…that’s me. And we just got a chemistry and like I said, it just threw me back to nostalgia with Buck when we did the first album in like two months. We just had so much of a chemistry where we didn’t question each other or nothing. It was just you like this/yeah I love it. And that’s how me and Apollo hit it off. Dude is just…I say he is the next Premier. Not in the sense of sounding like Premier but I think he’s that next heir to that throne. Because his sound is just what it is. It’s Hip Hop.

Arasia: Absolutely, I agree. His sound is definitely straight Hip Hop. And I’m sure you picked up on this, but there is something also about being in Detroit and just being amongst that energy that’s almost magical and all of them have it in their own unique way even down to the way they walk.

O.C: Well, you know what it is? About the D? It’s the despair, the economy…everything is crazy out there. That’s probably one of the worst cities I’ve been to in my life A. Out of despair, pain, and hunger comes jewels. I mean, where do people usually go to learn about things and learn about a people? They go to the hood. I know growing up with the Puerto Ricans; they were the ones that used to put sound systems in their cars and ‘TVs in the headrests before big companies and dealer shops. We used to get tickets for that back in the day but they took all of that from what these dudes was doing in the hood and that’s what the D is to me. The D right now is NY when we first started out. But it’s always been there. Motown been there before Hip Hop you know what I’m saying? Like I said man, it’s always gifted people in bad places. Always. You will always find people who have some type of gift or some type of talent or something. Go into the hoods in Chicago, L.A., Ohio, New York or wherever. They always come looking to capitalize off us.

Arasia: Exactly. So did he take you around to the different hoods? Detroit is my second home so I know that land pretty well.  You drive down one block and every house is abandoned except two if that.

O.C: Yeah, man. When I was done on Tuesday, we had a few days so ended up recording a record called “Options,” on the album after he took me around on that Thursday. What I saw…I couldn’t’ believe it. The worst I’ve seen like that was Brownsville.  Brownsville really never changed and Far Rockaway Queens. If you want to go back to the ‘70s Lovechild album with Diana Ross, you can go to Far Rockaway and Brownsville. It looks just like the ‘70s still. But yeah, when I went through the D, I was hurt.

Arasia: It looks like a third world country.

O.C: Yeah man, I’m telling dudes out here…we have a lot of projects in NY…[a lot] and seeing projects abandoned like that, I’ve never seen that. I’ve never seen so many empty lots or buildings in my life. I thought I seen it all here and going to other states but that’s the worst city I’ve been to in my life. Just as far as poor people and the living conditions and the lack of resources. He showed me about 17 or 18 public schools that were closed. That’s crazy to me A. I was bugging. We took pictures in front of the projects where The Temptations, Diana Ross, all of them lived and I’m looking through the windows. I could see to the next block. We’d walk down some blocks and then [see] the Detroit Tigers stadium and it was just like night and day. Go up the block and you see the football and baseball field. It’s so fucked up. I was hurt. I was living good. I came from a good family. We wasn’t rich…we were just about middle class growing up in Queens and Brooklyn, but I had it good. Compared to what I saw, I lived well. I can say that. I never starved…we always ate, so seeing that, I was just so shocked man. I’ve seen wild shit, seen people get murdered, been involved with stuff but nothing like this…man A, I’m blessed.

Arasia: So imagine being a shorty growing up like that.

O.C: Right…. [Gets silent]

Arasia: So how has your writing processed changed from when you first started? Has being in Detroit inspired you to take a different approach to your writing?

O.C: As far as my process of writing now, I’m little older so I think about my mortality. I don’t know if that makes sense. When I was younger, I didn’t think about getting shot or getting hurt. When you are young, you think you will live forever. And you feel like things can’t happen to you. But when you see things that happen to people like Trayvon who was 17… when you are young, you [just] don’t think about that happening to you. I never thought about my mortality when I was young so when I approached writing, I approached it on a level of what I’ve seen you know, like things I’ve been through. I’ve always taken my experiences or other people’s experiences but now I think about if I got a pain in my chest or if something is wrong, or if my heart skipped a beat, I think about my mortality. I guess it’s natural. It’s a natural progression so with my writing, I’m more conscious, even more conscious of what I talk about now, and I’m not perfect. I m a hypocrite like everyone else is…I’m human and I make mistakes, you know. A life is a life even if it is a small life but I’m conscious about everything I say now. My process is more thought out than before.

Arasia: That’s understandable and I do believe it is a natural progression that we all encounter eventually.

O.C: Right.

Arasia: Okay, so let’s switch gears here because you know I have to jump into your classics with an “s.” Jewelz has its 15^thanniversary coming up in August so please share with me your thoughts on it 15 years later. Are you shocked that it is still so highly revered?

O.C: I had something to prove with that album. The first album, Word…Life, you know, it was more less about me being respected for my rhymes. You know? I was younger and I wasn’t thinking about making a living or how many records I would sell…just people respecting the rhymes. Jewelz was something I felt like I had to prove because everybody was gravitating towards Nas. You know people like that…Big and them and I felt like I was in that same class. I didn’t get Q-Tip on my [first] album. I couldn’t get Preem or Pete Rock on my first album. All the beat dudes from back then that was working with this dude so I felt like I had something to prove and I figured my crew was just as good as these other producers so I really didn’t need all these names. So that was to show people it wasn’t no fluke the second time around. That’s just what it was. And the only guests were Da Beatminerz and Premier and the rest of that album was my crew. It was Digging.

The first album did numbers without no promotion. Word…Life did 100,000 plus with no promo. I had two videos and that was it. The album sold itself. At that time, I was on Wild Pitch who had merged with EMI. I think Arrested Development had a big album a year or two before that so when their second album came out, EMI was concentrating on them. They didn’t even think about me. Funny thing about that was, I had more of a buzz than them and they had more of a push going through the same distributor. EMI took notice after that when I was doing what I was doing on my own. I had to grind it out doing shows, all that. The singles were doing well…”Times Up,” “Born To Live.”I even had Ice Cube approach the label or they got at the label. Or the label got at him [to be in the video] about a record called, “Constables” on the first album and I think Cube wanted like 40/50 grand, which at that time he was into the whole black power movement. It would’ve been smart for them to pay him that money.

Arasia: Absolutely.

O.C: But everything works out for a reason because I still did well. Like I said, Jewelz was to show people it wasn’t no fluke. I’m here. The stock did go up. My pay went up for bookings and stuff. It was crazy. It was different and at that time, I saw I needed to get on my business and pay attention to the business. I didn’t pay attention to the business aspect in the beginning but after that album, I started paying attention to it more. And it worked out. Had I sold a gold or platinum album, I think I wouldn’t be around today.

Arasia: Really? That’s an interesting perspective. What makes you say that?

O.C: Everybody ain’t meant to be Jay, LL or Biggie. That wasn’t my lane as far as selling all those records. I think that would’ve been a curse. And the numbers still don’t’ match up. Cause I do shows with any of these dudes and I got the same amount of fans as them. What they say, men lie, women lie, numbers don’t? Sometimes numbers do lie A cause I got the same fans as Nas and Jay…he [Jay-Z] is a bigger brand. He’s a brand but as far as music, I can do shows with Jay and people will know who I am. Same difference.

Arasia: Everybody’s idea of success is different so do you think would you have had to alter your sound or approach to have Jay or Nas’ “level” of success?

O.C: Of course A. Labels don’t deal with you if you ain’t bringing in no bread. Period. It ain’t even nothing else to say behind that. I don’t care if you David Axelrod and them, if you ain’t selling records, you will get dropped, period. If Jay didn’t have the brand he has, he’d have gotten dropped but he had his own label. But him being signed directly and he isn’t producing the numbers they expect? They will drop him. It’s a business. They don’t care about our stuff. If it don’t make dollars, it don’t make sense. That’s how the corporations look at it.

Arasia: Word. So what is your label situation right now?

O.C: I don’t have a label. I’m not signed. I do work for hires. Hire me, pay me. I’ll do a record and we keep it moving. I’ll never sign to a label again.

Arasia: Were there talks about you signing to MMG?

O.C: No, but, it’s in the air. If I was them, why not? But nah, just pay me. I got my publishing [and] I register my own songs so I don’t need to be on a label. I can do everything a label does. All they do is take your money for them registering your album after it’s recorded. Promo…we go the Internet now so they are obsolete.

Arasia: So what do you think about how much the Internet plays a role in the game today in comparison to how it was when you were coming up?

O.C: Gift and a curse. It’s good because you can do a lot of things. You can do a lot of things that records companies claim they did on your own. You can be self-sufficient. Look at the Soulja Boy. Look at people that got buzzes on their own. Soulja Boy is a perfect example. This kid was getting what, 20-3000 thousand a show off MySpace before he got a deal and this is all off a MySpace buzz so this wasn’t no record company. He did this himself with the crew of people that helped him. He didn’t need no label so of course they were throwing money at him. He was smart to take a deal but he was already producing numbers. He was garnering a following. But it’s disposable. It was disposable in their minds. He’s hot so we gone give him a million whatever…however his deal was structured, but at the end of the day, he didn’t need them. And a lot of artists are doing it, especially underground artists. Nobody needs a label at this point in time.

Check back on Wednesday for part two where he addresses the accusations of “selling out” on Bon Appetit, what happened with the Starchild album, touches on the early history of D.I.T.C. and shares a few stories about the late Big L.